Marco comes from Italy, but he has been living in Katowice since 2011. He talks with Edyta about what it’s like to work and live in Poland as a foreigner and why Poland may be more attractive than his homeland, Sicily. In this interview, we comment on several stereotypes and talk about the biggest international event in Katowice.

Edyta: How long have you been living in Katowice?

Marco: Fourteen and a half years. Almost fifteen. In September, it will be fifteen.

Will you celebrate?

I do not usually think about it, but now that you mention it, maybe I should…

You should. Fifteen years is a big anniversary. So, Marco, why Poland?

My story comes from my willingness to travel and discover the world. I come from Sicily, but I studied in Milan. After five years there, after leaving the nest and living alone, I came back to Sicily. It was a bit of a trauma, because Milan is a big city, while my hometown in Sicily has around thirty-five thousand people.

Which town in Sicily exactly?

Lentini, close to Siracusa and Catania. It’s a beautiful place. I can see Etna, I can see the seaside, and it’s perfect for vacation. But for someone ambitious, who wants to discover the world, it can feel too small. I missed a wider environment. I had also been involved in the Erasmus community in Milan, so I was used to international people. I had a Spanish girlfriend, and I was supposed to go to Spain, but then we broke up. Suddenly, I found myself in Sicily with no plan.

So what did you do?

I started applying for jobs. This became a pattern in my life: looking for jobs, finding jobs, and later helping other people find jobs. One option was in Poland. I applied for that and for other roles, got a call back, and had an interview. At that time, I didn’t know Katowice. I knew Kraków, because everybody knows Kraków. For me, Katowice was just the airport close to Kraków. But I liked the opportunity at Capgemini, where I started as a technical support engineer.

I remember telling my mother, “I am going to Poland, to Katowice.” She said, “Oh my God, why so far?” But we both know it is only a two-hour direct flight.

Exactly. 

And you see: everything started in August 2011. It was not supposed to last this long, but I am still here.

And still in the same company, right?

Yes, still in the same company, although my responsibilities have changed. This is something I often tell new joiners at Capgemini: it’s a great place to work because you get opportunities. Even though I worked with one client for many years, I was able to expand my scope and grow. Now I am a manager. I don’t speak Polish very well, and still, I am where I am. So I tell especially foreign new joiners that in Poland, and in Capgemini, there is an opportunity. I am living evidence of that. Of course, every place has pros and cons, but I am very happy with how I have been treated.

Before we move to your private life, which is also a big part of your Polish story, tell me what it is like to work with Polish people and in a Polish business environment. The company is international, but most of your co-workers are probably Polish.

To give you some numbers, about 90% are Polish, and 10% are foreigners in Poland globally. That means more than 1,000 foreign employees out of around 10,000. For me, that’s a very good number, because you can work in an international environment. When I came, many people spoke different languages and had an Erasmus experience. They were young, open-minded, and international. For me, it felt like paradise, because it was my environment.

And after almost fifteen years, you can probably say which Polish stereotypes are true and which are not.

I think Polish people created some of those stereotypes themselves. For example, people often tell me, “We are complainers.” I don’t feel it so much.

Maybe because I’m energetic and try to see the glass half full, people compare themselves to me. But I don’t have bad examples. My mentors and many people who helped my development were Polish. I can talk mainly about Capgemini, but my experience has been very good. I do hear about places where foreigners can feel left alone if the environment is too closed, but I think individuals make the difference. I cannot say that Polish people do not make foreigners feel welcome.

Another stereotype about Poles is that we are hardworking. How would you compare Polish people with Italians?

It’s tricky. I agree that Polish people are hardworking, but of course, it’s not true for everyone. Sometimes I hear that Polish people finish work at 3:00 or 5:00 PM, which is actually good because it means work-life balance. On the other hand, people from Sicily, southern Italy, or Spain are sometimes associated with “siesta.” But this doesn’t mean they are lazy. In Sicily, my father would sleep one hour after lunch, but then he worked until eight in the evening. He was one of the hardest-working people I know. The routine is simply different. If someone has a siesta at two, we should not assume they do not work hard. The Italians I have worked with in Poland were also very hardworking.

Do foreigners coming to a new country need to try harder to prove their value?

I think certain nationalities do. I can see a difference between how I am treated as an Italian and how colleagues from, for example, North African countries may be treated. They often have to work harder or prove themselves harder. I feel close to Mediterranean countries, so I notice both advantages and prejudices. Overall, foreigners need to work a little harder to build a business case for their presence here, especially now. Nothing is granted. Even the language barrier can work against us, so I recommend making that extra effort.

Do you think you lose something because you do not speak Polish, or do not speak enough Polish?

In communication, yes. In my case, I know why it happened. It was not because I thought Polish was unimportant. It was about priorities and time. During the last thirteen years, I focused my attention on other things.

One of those priorities is probably your biggest project: family. You are a father of three. Did you meet your wife in Katowice?

Yes, she is from Silesia, and I met her at work, at Capgemini. I owe a lot to that company: who I am as a manager, the knowledge I have, and also my wife. She is very different from me. I am a corporate person, open, social, and networking-oriented. She prefers fewer connections, but stronger ones. Still, we have many things in common.

Maybe that is also a difference between Polish and Italian mentality. We may be more focused on fewer but deeper relationships, while Italians are more about creating big communities.

I agree. My wife often asks me, “Why do you need to talk to this person? Why do you need to meet them? Why are you exchanging contacts?” For me, it’s natural.

I can meet someone at a tram stop and start talking. My approach is: you never know. Maybe I can help this person, or maybe this person can help me.

You are a very social person, and that is why you are where you are: a manager in a big international company and the president of a foundation. Tell us more about the foundation.

The family project is the first one, but the foundation is even older. It was founded in 2018, before my first daughter was born. I am very happy and proud of it. Everything started with football. Sport is a big connector, especially for foreigners and for people who don’t already have a community. When I arrived, I knew only colleagues from work. I liked playing football, and thanks to social media, we connected and started playing every Saturday. Then I realized how many international people live in Katowice: people from Egypt, Tunisia, Italy, France, Spain, and many other places. We enjoyed playing and spending time together.

And then came the idea of a football tournament?

Yes, we thought about organizing a World Cup. Then we asked ourselves whether such an event could be sustainable if it was organized only by individuals. We decided we needed something more formal, and a foundation was the right form. I would not have done it alone. At that time, there was also Abadi Murshit, a friend from Saudi Arabia who now works as a doctor, and Grzegorz Kędziora, my colleague and football mate. We created it together. The message is that it’s hard to do things alone, but two or three people are enough to start something.

What is the name of the foundation?

Katowice Internationals Foundation. Our biggest event is the Katowice Internationals World Cup. This year is the 8th edition, and every year it becomes bigger and better. We are very proud of it.

What is the date of this year’s edition?

It will take place on the 27th and 28th of June, Saturday and Sunday. We started with 16 national teams. Last year, there were 28. This year, I think we will have 24, partly to make the organization a little easier. What is great is that these are foreigners living in Poland, and they really belong here. Italy is represented by Italians living in Poland; Morocco by Moroccans living in Poland; the same with Tunisia, Colombia, Portugal, and other countries.

I know that every year there are new players, but also the same people who wait all year to sign up again. This event is important for them. Do you consider it a big success?

Yes, definitely. I don’t often think of myself as successful, but the event itself is a great success. I feel excited, happy, and proud when I compare where we are today with where we were 8 years ago.

Can anyone join the event?

Yes, but there are rules. If you want to play, you need to have the nationality of the team. A Colombian can play for Colombia, for example, but they need to speak with the captain or coach. There is one exception: the goalkeeper can be from any country, because it is hard to find good goalkeepers. But they still need to be good. And if you do not play football, you can volunteer. We are always looking for volunteers. 

So it is not only a sports event. It is also a social event.

Exactly. It’s largely social. It’s where a community is created and has a chance to meet, exchange knowledge, feelings, and experiences. I remember that even Italians living in Katowice often did not know one another. Thanks to the event and football, they connected and friendships started. The same applies to many other communities.

You also mentioned that the event can create opportunities.

Yes. Last year, there was a volunteer from Nigeria, Anime, who came from Kraków. He was unemployed and looking for a job. One of our sponsors, Maple Bear, was there for the first time, and one of our volunteers, Isabella from Brazil, worked for Maple Bear. They met during the event, and he got a job. He came as a volunteer just for fun, and because you never know what can happen. Now he is happy with the job and happy to share that story.

People can also come just as supporters, right?

Yes, and we encourage everyone in and around Katowice to join. It is two full days. On Saturday, around midday, I recommend coming for the opening ceremony. There is a parade inspired by the Olympics, and usually there are guests from the city hall, institutions, politics, or sports. Then there are many football matches. On Sunday, there is more football, and we try to add food trucks or other entertainment. Last year, there were yoga classes. It’s a great event for families and supporters, and I think it is a “can’t miss” event for the Katowice community.

I agree. I have attended several editions, and I will be there this year too. Now, going back to your family, you have three children. How old are they?

Gaia is six and a half. Pola has just turned four. Kai, our little boy, is almost two at the end of June. He came two weeks after the World Cup two years ago, making things complicated for me. He already kicks the ball, so maybe he will be a player one day. My children are my biggest project and my biggest happiness. Gaia loves the World Cup. She spent the whole weekend with me two years ago, and I hope to bring at least the oldest children this year too.

They are bilingual, of course.

Yes. One reason I don’t speak Polish fluently is that I strongly believe I should speak Italian with them. Thanks to that, they are fluent and bilingual. In some mixed families, the foreign parent switches to Polish because it’s easier, and then the Polish bubble becomes too strong. In my family, we have something like 60/40: Italian and Polish. Luckily, my wife also speaks Italian.

Do you speak Italian with your wife?

Actually, we speak Spanish, because we met speaking Spanish. She also speaks French. We believe that one day Spanish will be easy for the children to pick up, because it’s similar to Italian. English is everywhere, so I’m not worried about that either.

That is one of the superpowers of international families. Children can grow up with several languages without much effort, because it’s simply their everyday life. Do you think Poland is a good place to raise a family?

Yes, definitely. Compared with Italy, and especially with Sicily, I think Poland is a better place for raising a family today. In Katowice, there is a playground on almost every corner. On weekends, we sometimes make a tour of playgrounds. We have a lot of support, and I am happy with the medical services, including the private healthcare available through my company. When I compare this with my sister raising a child in Sicily, it’s different. In her town, there may be one playground, and it’s vandalized. Of course, Sicily has the seaside. You cannot have everything. But overall, my experience in Poland is very positive. Sometimes I’m sad that what I have here is not available to my friends and family there.

What would you take from Sicily and bring here?

The weather, definitely. Also, seafood, fish, and vegetables. Thanks to the climate, the quality is different and hard to compare with Poland.

We love Italian food, and we believe that we serve good-quality Italian cuisine here. Do you agree?

Yes, but I don’t often go to Italian restaurants, because I can cook Italian food at home. I like cooking. I do like pizza in Katowice, especially the recent Neapolitan style. Places like Vera Napoli, Olio on Dworcowa, and Luigi e Antonio in Piotrowice are good examples. I also buy food at Angolo Italiano. There are good pizzas in Katowice.

If you go out and do not choose Italian food, what do you choose?

We like Indian food a lot. There is a new place nearby, Thali House. We also like sushi and Thai food. I am not the kind of traditional Italian man who eats only Italian food.

I like tasting different cultures. I was born in Sicily, but in my hometown, there were no such opportunities. There was a pizzeria and maybe one restaurant. Here, the diversity is much bigger.

Katowice has changed a lot in that sense.

Yes. Ten or fourteen years ago, there were far fewer options. I remember when it was mainly Len Arte. Now you can find Neapolitan pizza, Greek food, Indian food, sushi, and many other things. In Kraków, this may be obvious, but in Katowice, it was not.

Did you ever regret moving to Poland?

No, never. It was one of the best choices of my life.

Is there still something you struggle with and cannot get used to?

The weather. Especially April weather, when I still need a scarf, hat, and maybe gloves. I do not regret being here, but just get annoyed by that.

Did your Italian routine change after moving to Poland?

Yes, especially recently. In Italy, breakfast is usually sweet: cornetto and cappuccino. Here, I cannot really have that, so breakfast used to be a challenge. Two years ago, because of a diet, I switched completely to a salty breakfast: eggs, tomato, and rye sourdough bread. I love it. It feels like having a Polish Easter breakfast every day.

And dinner?

In Italy, dinner is late, often at eight or nine in the evening, and it can be a big meal. Then you go to bed with a full stomach. In Poland, I often skip dinner or eat something very light at six or seven. I am happy with that. I struggle when I go back to Sicily and have to adjust to the Italian rhythm again.

Is it difficult to explain to your mother that you do not want dinner at nine?

She accepts it, but the real problem is me. When she cooks and everyone sits at the table, it’s hard not to join. Even if you say, “I will not eat tonight,” you end up sitting down and eating. In Italy, the moment of lunch or dinner together is very important. Everyone sits, and you do not stand up until everyone is finished. There are rules.

In Poland, it depends on the family. In my family, it was important to sit together, especially for obiad, but I know families where they do not eat together. It’s more flexible than in Italy.

In Italy, not eating together would rarely happen. Here it can happen, and it’s not a big deal.

Marco, it sounds like you are in a good place now. You have a manager position in a good company, a big family, and your foundation. Is there something you still wish for yourself? What goals do you have for the future?

I am very happy with what I have, but there are always new projects and ideas. I wish for health, because I need it for my family and my people. I also hope to keep spending time in Sicily, as I can now. Our company allows us to work from abroad for some time, which is great and unique. While the children are still small, I want to use this flexible model. Right now, the balance is good.

Leaving the World Cup aside, if your foundation could have another goal, what would it be?

Employability. For me, this is very important. These foreigners are not here by mistake. I am not talking only about refugees. In Katowice, we do not have so many refugees, although of course, we have Ukrainian people. I mean, all these communities. Many of them already work, have families, or come here to study.

It is a big deal to move from Zimbabwe or Rwanda to Katowice. There are sacrifices behind it. I would like to do more to help people find jobs.

Regulations are changing and may become stricter, which is fine if there is a clear vision behind it. I do career consulting in my free time, also voluntarily for the community. This could be a goal for our foundation: to help people find jobs and prepare for the future needs of the labor market. The market is dynamic, with AI and new specializations. Foreigners need extra effort because they may lack Polish at the beginning, so they also need more information and support.

Thank you, Marco. I am really happy you accepted my invitation. I wish you all the best, and I hope you never lose your superpower and your energy. I am happy that Katowice is home to people like you — people who found their future and family here.

Thank you so much for everything. See you at the World Cup. 27th and 28th of June.